Riots in Tibet today :(

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giadoe	Riots in Tibet today :(	Lead	[-]
Posts: 1822 (03/14/2008 3:22 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Friend Block Invite Ignore	I feel quite sad as I was here last year. Lhasa (the capital city of Tibet) is supposed to be the pilgrimage destination - quiet, heavenly, peaceful city. People from the tibetan countryside embarked by foot, miles and miles away, prostating along the way. Many take the pilgrim journey as the life long dream, when they get the glimpse of Jokhang temple and Potala Palace, they would burst into tears and prostate all day. If they arrived today, they would see blood and riots instead . My pictures from last August: What happened today (pic from Reuters and WallStreet Journal) - I hope people that I knew when I was there were okay...especially my tour guide.
jain smith		#1	[-]
Posts: 1251 (03/14/2008 3:25 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Friend Block Invite Ignore	This is just awful. The Chinese government can go fcuk themselves!!!
giadoe		#2	[-]
Posts: 1823 (03/14/2008 3:35 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Friend Block Invite Ignore	^ I am glad you said "the Chinese government", instead of "the chinese" since I'm part of ethnic Chinese myself. I wished they could do the right thing for Tibetan. On one hand, i think the economic advantage (the railroad and slight modernization) might help the modern Tibetan generation but at the same time, I wished they could implement the right policy, give them freedom to speak tibetan language and practice their religion (also let them choose their own religious leader, instead of the puppet leader from the government). It's just sad all around....as evil as it sounds, unfortunately, majority of Tibetan males are monks or farmers/nomads, hence, they can't really defend themselves as a country. The best way is to reach a deal with the Chinese government but I guess after being surpressed for so long, they couldn't hold it anymore. When I was there, tibetan is treated as second class citizens compared to other ethnics.
jain smith		#3	[-]
Posts: 1252 (03/14/2008 3:59 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Friend Block Invite Ignore	Yes I make it a point to refer to the govenrment when expressing my hatred for their atrocious activites. I follow what the Dalai Lama said: Don't hate the Chinese, hate what they did. I'm Tibetan and it's sad I can't go visit Tibet. I'm glad you brought this up, I wasn't even aware of all this crap!
PoliannaBal		#4	[-]
Posts: 813 (03/14/2008 4:25 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Friend Block Invite Ignore	That`s really awful! Hope the violence will be stoped ASAP.
giadoe		#5	[-]
Posts: 1824 (03/14/2008 4:52 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Friend Block Invite Ignore	jain smith wrote: Yes I make it a point to refer to the govenrment when expressing my hatred for their atrocious activites. I follow what the Dalai Lama said: Don't hate the Chinese, hate what they did. I'm Tibetan and it's sad I can't go visit Tibet. I'm glad you brought this up, I wasn't even aware of all this crap! Jain, just to clarify, are you Tibetan or you are quoting Dalai Lama (I'm Tibetan and it's sad I can't go visit Tibet)? My family is buddhist and my dad lifelong dream is to visit Tibet and Potala Palace. I am glad that we went last year although we felt that Tibet changed rapidly (the town is divided into 2 sides - east and west. the east is where the military bases and newly immigrant live - the west is where most tibetan try to keep their business as usual). When I was in Tibet, I learned a lot of things like how Tibetan culture will end and there is no successor for Dalai Lama - Tibetan culture will end once he passed away. The worst part is when I learned the circumstances of panchen lama 11th. He was the youngest political prisoner. He was abducted and imprisoned when he was 6. No one knows where he is and without panchen lama, there will be no one to succeed Dalai Lama 14th. No one is allowed to have any Dalai Lama or Panchen Lama pics inside Tibet. I was so itching to google but I was scared that I will get my tour guide and my hotel in trouble so I researched about Panchen Lama after I'm back to the states. I hope he's still alive somewhere. this is the last pic of Panchen Lama 11th
jain smith		#6	[-]
Posts: 1255 (03/14/2008 6:04 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Friend Block Invite Ignore	giadoe...I am Tibetan. I've never been to Tibet though...sad! It's also awfully sad that the likes of Panchen Lama go missing and nothing's done about that!
Swampscut		#7	[-]
Posts: 774 (03/14/2008 6:27 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Friend Block Invite Ignore	This really makes me mad. That little boy was taken by the Chinese govt and hasn't been seen in 13 yrs. Nations should demand his release or at least confirmation that he's still alive. I saw the video on the news tonight and it upsets me greatly to see these Monks attacked just like it upsets me that, that Catholic Cardinal was killed in Iraq.
giadoe		#8	[-]
Posts: 1827 (03/14/2008 6:28 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Friend Block Invite Ignore	oh Jain, I'm so sorry....yeah, it's sad that things like this still happen. I hope panchen lama and his family are still alive and nothing untoward/harm are done to them. He's only a 6 year old boy...doesn't know anything about politics other than he is chosen as the reincarnation of panchen lama 10th Panchen Lama 11th pic always makes me sad.....after I come back from my trip, it keeps bothering my conscience and I really hope things will turn for the better (maybe start with Olympics pressure and hopefully, the gradual changes that happen in China right now).
Swampscut		#9	[-]
Posts: 775 (03/14/2008 6:31 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Friend Block Invite Ignore	They said on the news tonight that the Chinese govt. will never recognize Tibet as a sovereign nation and blame the Dalia Lama for this.
SpectorLover		#10	[-]
Posts: 2906 (03/14/2008 6:47 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Friend Block Invite Ignore	I learned about Tibet in one of my classes recently. I knew about the situation beforehand, but hearing it in more detail is devastating. If there is any good left in the world, Tibet will be helped and saved. But, such good will probably lead to so much trouble with China. It is such a delicate issue. I will just continue to hope and pray. And the abduction of the successor of the lama I have never even heard about until now. Did it even receive any news stories? A young boy goes missing and no one cares. Unbelievable.
gumibear66		#11	[-]
Posts: 224 (03/14/2008 6:55 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Friend Block Invite Ignore	jain smith wrote: This is just awful. The Chinese government can go fcuk themselves!!!
giadoe		#12	[-]
Posts: 1828 (03/14/2008 7:04 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Friend Block Invite Ignore	seriously, I considered myself worldwisely (and I'm probably older than most people here - I'm in my 30) but I didn't know about panchen lama 11th until last year in my trip either. I remembered tidbits from Brad Pitt's movie (7 years in Tibet) and Martin Scorcesse's movie (kundun) before my trip to Tibet, but things really don't hit home until you see it with your own eyes. My dad study buddhism a lot and he even shocked with all these newfound information when we went there. I guess that's what people say that travelling really beat any textbook or documentary experience. A young boy goes missing and no one cares. Unbelievable. Yeah that seems to be the case unfortunately....the chinese government appointed another panchen lama 11th (handpicked) and the real panchen lama 11th whom was picked through Tibetan tradition (Dalai Lama & Reincarnation process) went missing with his whole family.
rfreaxelectric		#13	[-]
Posts: 899 (03/14/2008 7:39 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Friend Block Invite Ignore	This is probably a stupid question, but why would Tibet being freed be problematic for China?
giadoe		#14	[-]
Posts: 1829 (03/14/2008 8:55 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Friend Block Invite Ignore	rfreaxelectric wrote: This is probably a stupid question, but why would Tibet being freed be problematic for China? I think because it might trigger other provinces in China to demand the same independence (i.e: Xinjiang province and "the renegade province" Taiwan, among others). China went through dynasty after dynasty tried to unify China. I think the point of contention here is which exactly is the map of China because if we measured it back to Mongol reign (Gengis Khan), it covered most asia and some part of Europe. Also, Tibet is the buffer zone between China & India. Back in the days, I believe the british also invaded Tibet. China and British fought a lot before (i.e: Opium war) so I think when China had a chance to claim Tibet back, they did. In term of national security and war time, China now hold the upper hand in the region because of the railroad access (it used to take a week to travel to Lhasa, with the train, they could get there within 36 hours) and I believe it's considered a security threat for India.
sugar OR spice		#15	[-]
Posts: 1199 (03/15/2008 10:14 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Friend Block Invite Ignore	I just read a few articles in my local paper about the riots in Tibet and its left me with a sick feeling in my stomach. I had the very same feeling when I heard and followed the riots and killing of monks in Burma a couple of months ago and it's the same feeling I had when I read up on the situation in Darfur and the genocide and mass killings in Rwanda as a result of the civil war between the Hutus and the Tutsis. Just so unreal and unimaginable. Like the people in Darfur, Rwanda and Burma.. I feel for the people in Tibet. Their reactions are a result of years and years of oppression and frustration and pent up anger. I don't blame them for feeling the need to protest and lash out. I'm no expert and certainly do not make any claims to know what a proper resolution would be in a situation like this..but I feel that the Chinese government at the very least needs to hear these people out. Take their stance into consideration. I doubt they will..as they seem firm in their stance that Tibetans need to back down..but I can't understand how they could possibly think it's just and fair to take steps to overtly eradicate the cultural practices and observances of these people. Fucking ri-damn-diculous. In retrospect I'm really happy to see threads like this in the forum (I enjoyed reading your exchange jain & giadoe and thank you giadoe for including your pictures) it really puts things into perspective. I mean I enjoy celebrity gossip and Hollywood as much as the next person..but Britney's antics and Paris/Lindsay roaming the Hollywood streets for dick..in the grand scheme of things IMO are not that important when people around the world are fighting for something so basic as the right to life and to freedom.
whitney		#16	[-]
Posts: 516 (03/15/2008 10:26 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Friend Block Invite Ignore	giadoe wrote: rfreaxelectric wrote: This is probably a stupid question, but why would Tibet being freed be problematic for China? I think because it might trigger other provinces in China to demand the same independence (i.e: Xinjiang province and "the renegade province" Taiwan, among others). China went through dynasty after dynasty tried to unify China. I think the point of contention here is which exactly is the map of China because if we measured it back to Mongol reign (Gengis Khan), it covered most asia and some part of Europe. Also, Tibet is the buffer zone between China & India. Back in the days, I believe the british also invaded Tibet. China and British fought a lot before (i.e: Opium war) so I think when China had a chance to claim Tibet back, they did. In term of national security and war time, China now hold the upper hand in the region because of the railroad access (it used to take a week to travel to Lhasa, with the train, they could get there within 36 hours) and I believe it's considered a security threat for India. Very interesting thread. I wonder why the US Govt. is more protective of Taiwan than Tibet. The
whitney		#17	[-]
Posts: 517 (03/15/2008 10:27 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Friend Block Invite Ignore	giadoe wrote: rfreaxelectric wrote: This is probably a stupid question, but why would Tibet being freed be problematic for China? I think because it might trigger other provinces in China to demand the same independence (i.e: Xinjiang province and "the renegade province" Taiwan, among others). China went through dynasty after dynasty tried to unify China. I think the point of contention here is which exactly is the map of China because if we measured it back to Mongol reign (Gengis Khan), it covered most asia and some part of Europe. Also, Tibet is the buffer zone between China & India. Back in the days, I believe the british also invaded Tibet. China and British fought a lot before (i.e: Opium war) so I think when China had a chance to claim Tibet back, they did. In term of national security and war time, China now hold the upper hand in the region because of the railroad access (it used to take a week to travel to Lhasa, with the train, they could get there within 36 hours) and I believe it's considered a security threat for India. Very interesting thread. I wonder why the US Govt. is more protective of Taiwan than Tibet. Taiwan seems much more independent than Tibet.
sugar OR spice		#18	[-]
Posts: 1201 (03/15/2008 10:37 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Friend Block Invite Ignore	whitney wrote: giadoe wrote: rfreaxelectric wrote: Very interesting thread. It really is. It's informative and not just about Hollywood fluff.
Lynda08		#19	[-]
Posts: 162 (03/15/2008 11:05 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Friend Block Invite Ignore	jain smith wrote: This is just awful. The Chinese government can go fcuk themselves!!! Sad but true
valhalla07		#20	[-]
Posts: 1431 (03/15/2008 11:19 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Friend Block Invite Ignore	from this: to this: it's awful..

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Riots in Tibet today :(

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